From: Tita Ortega (Tita_Ortega@NOTES.INTDATA.COM)

Subject: Duglas Interview Part 1

Like I said, it's an interview I did with Duglas over the phone around the
time Thirteen was released.  I was living in California, and it was around
3 in the morning because 11am UK time was the best time for him that day.
I remember so clearly the feeling of that night/morning, and how I fell
asleep so happily.  Norman's just the kind of person that gives you hope
for mankind...

Anyway,   I hope you enjoy it...........


How or where did you and Norman meet?

Our parents, when we were younger, both went to the same church. And when
the adults were in church there used to be a thing called a creche so the
young children didn't get too bored and halfway through the service they
could go on about and play and things.  I remember...I'd be about probably
4 and Norman would be about 3...I can remember Norman Blake running up and
down around the chairs and getting a row for it.  I think that's my first
memory of Norman.  I mean I always knew who he was  because his parents
owned a shop, a kinda food store, and so everybody knew who he was.  When
you owned something like that you were almost famous.

He always knew who I was 'cause in school I was regarded as the school
entertainer, putting on little shows in the playground.  We were probably 8
years old...

But I think when we really became friends was when we ended up taking the
same art class at school.  This is when I was probably about 16 and Norman
was about 15.  It was "Blueboy" by Orange Juice and Norman came into that
class telling everybody how wonderful this record was, you know, and
everybody else had never even heard of this.  I stuck my head up and said,
'I think Falling and Laughing is actually better than Blueboy,' and he was
so amazed that someone else heard of this group, and we kinda became
friends then.

I think it was pretty soon after then that we actually started to make
music together and things.  The first stuff we did was just wee kinda noisy
songs.


What was your first impression of Norman?

I always thought, and I suppose it's sort of stuck in some ways, but I
always kind of thought of him before I really knew him as being kind of a
likeable rascal.  He always had a kind of mischevious grin on his face.
He's the sort of person if he did something really naughty he was really
hard to be angry with.  SOme people it's really easy to be angry with them,
but when Norman looks at you and he's got that kind of grin on his face,
and he knows he's done something wrong, you just can't get angry with him.
I remember him telling me about his first impression of me at primary
school - this really strange guy coming into class singing these really
bizarre songs.  He was like a year younger than me, and I had really quite
long hair and I used to do things like wear jumpers and cut the sleeves
off.  He thought I was soem sort of crazy happy sort of person.

Is he right?

Oh no.  Much more him than me.

Do you remember what your last disagreement was over?

Norman's one of the very very few people that I cirtually have no
disagreements with.  It's really strange because I can't really think of a
major disagreement we've ever had because it goes back to the things that
sometimes....you know, maybe I'm sure I do things to really irritate him,
but he'll do things....like say he says he's gonna do something and he
doesn't do it.  Before I see him I'll be like, "oooh! Wait till I see him!
I'm so angry and I'm really gonna tell him!"  Then he walks into the room
and he's got that grin on his face, knowing that he's done it (something
wrong) and you just go, "Aw, it doesn't matter!"
Virtually ant other friend I've got I can probably think of some sort of
disagreement that we've had.  I'm not the sort of person that really falls
out with people or anything.  I tend to have arguments with them then 5
minutes later it's over and everything's okay.  But Norman and I,  we're
really different in lots of ways...although we do have a lot of
similarities, I think he understands me and kind of puts up with the way I
am and I do the same with him.

What's the first band you and Norman went to see together?

Two groups played together in Glasgow.  It was the Clash and they were
supported by Theatre of Hate.  I went in to see the Clash, and Norman sorta
wanted to see the Clash as well, but he wanted......this was long before,
like I had never even heard of Theatre of Hate at this time, it was their
first ever single, 'Rebel Without a Brain' or something like that.  Norman
really wanted to see them.  He thought they were best and I thought the
Clash were best.  Right now I'm not actually convinced that either group
was really that great.  At the time it seemed quite good.
But yeah, the first concert we met up at was definitely the Clash because
somehow Norman had managed to get us on the guestlist, so it didn't cost us
any money.
It was quite early on in our friendship.  In fact, I think it was probably
a week or two after the Orange Juice incident.  Yeah, I think it was the
first place we really went together.  I met him after school inside his
parents shop.  He said he was going to go to this 'cause he was gonna get
in for nothing and he could take a friend and did I want to come?
I always remember us being really shocked because his dentist was there
with his wife.  He was like almost 40 or something.  He was too old to like
this sort of thing!  He had a moustache and he was kinda pogoing and we
were in complete shock.

What's this dentist doing now?

He's still a dentist.  Pretty cool dentist.


Have you guys ever, in your friendship history, liked the same girl?

Yeah.  Quite a few times.  It hasn't really been a problem I think.  We
both discovered that our first real big crush was on the same girl.  We
discovered that years later.  It was a girl at school and I remember Norman
telling me, "yeah my first crush was on her."  And I was "Oh! That's who my
first crush was on!"  It was a mild crush, but I real big time one.  And
neither of us ended up being her boyfriend.
I remember at one time, this is a terrible thing to say - this isn't
currently - we were dating these two different girls.  I always remember
that for some reason - it's a terrible thing to say - I mean, I liked my
girlfriend but there was something about Norman's girl that I was really
kind of envious of.  I always thought she was kind of more sexy or
something than my girlfriend.  There was just something about her, kinda
more exciting.  Eventually when both of us had finished both relationships,
Norman confessed he had similar feelings about my girlfriend!  Maybe
actually the girls felt the same way, I don't know.  I wish we had known!
But it's not like we've got identical tastes in things or people, but that
definitely has happened and I think even sometimes our enthusiasms for
things or for people...like if I really like someone a lot, Norman will
probably very often like them as well or vice versa.  It's like any friend
of Norman's is a friend of mine...it almost sounds like a clich?!  But I
suppose it could also work, well, there have been cases where I maybe felt,
oh, so-and-so is being Norman's friend because of blah-blah-blah, and I've
been protective of him, or suspicious of certain people.  But that doesn't
happen very often.  And I know he's been the same with me on a couple of
occasions.  He's thought, "Yeah, this person is not really Duglas' friend.
Duglas is being too trusting here."  So, that definitely happens as well.

What's one of your favorite memories of Norman?

It's really strange, but I reckon one real distinct one.  This is a sort of
self indulgent thing to say, but I'm the sort of person that's like, ah, I
can be really really ridiculously over enthusiastic and ridiculously happy
or ridiculously miserable.  I can go from extreme to extreme.  And I had
just bought the soundtrack for "Singing in the Rain" and I had been playing
it for hours nonstop.  And it got to something like 4 o'clock in the
morning and I was like "I've just got to phone up somebody and tell how
wonderful I feel!"  I was getting more and more and more enthusiastic and I
phoned up a couple of people and they were like, "Oh Duglas, go back to
bed!  I'm not interested.  It's 4 o'clock in the morning!  Oh, this is
terrible, don't phone me up telling me 'Singing in the Rain' is changing
your life, you know, I don't want to hear that!"
I should've known better.  And then I phoned up Norman.....I think that's
why he's probably like my best friend, cause he's always been the person
who would go....well, you know, I just phoned him up goin' "I'm just
listening to 'Singing in the Rain' and if it was raining outside I'd be
outside dancing right now, Norman!"  And he's kinda goin, "Right.  Aye,
great!  I think that's brilliant!  I know all the songs but I haven't
really heard them for years.  Why don't you bring it up and we'll both
listen to it?"  And it's like 4 o'clock in the morning at this time.
I remember not having very much money because I was really in debt over a
BMX Bandits LP I had released myself and had lost loads of money on.  I
didn't know if I had enough money to come over and he said, "Oh get a taxi
and I'll pay for it!"
I remember being in his bedroom with the two of us kind of dancing about
like Gene Kelly.  Not really like Gene Kelly cause neither of us can dance!
We were making up funny lyrics to sing along with the songs.  (laughing)
Tears of laughter coming out of my eyes, both of us, until probably seven
or eight in the morning.
Things like that.....I think Norman and I, when we're away on tour or away
from each other for long periods of time, one of the reasons we miss each
other is because we got this certain sense of humor that no one else I know
has!  Certain things make me laugh and other people laugh, but there's just
complete nonsense things that make both of us go into hysterics, that we
think are complete genius, but we just can't explain it to other people.
They just kind of look at you goin' "Huh? What's so funny?"  You know, even
when I'm telling it I'll have tears coming out of my eyes, unable to
breathe properly.  And they're "Uh, there's nothing funny here at all!"
.......So I think that's probably one of my favorite memories of Norman.
That happens quite a lot.  If I was feeling really
depressed............this sounds kinda corny, "Oh Norman!" .......but if I
was really depressed about something - you would never know it from my
records of course - but there was a time when I was really really really
depressed most of the time and if I phoned up Norman again at 3 o'clock in
the morning going, "Oh I just can't sleep, blah blah blah..." he'd always
be the person who would say, "Just come on up, you know, or I'll come
down."  You could tell he was half asleep but he would never go, "Oh I'm
too sleepy.  Tell me about it in the morning.  Go back to bed, you'll feel
better."
I mean there's lots of good memories like that.


What's your favorite song on the new Teenage Fanclub album? (Thirteen)

I've got a tape of Norman doing "The Cabbage" with an acoustic guitar at a
party, and when I listen to that I think that's my favorite song because
he's forgotten some of the words cause he'd just written it.  It always
sounds a lot purer to me because it's just him and the guitar.........But
I've got a real great love for "Norman 3" because I love the simplicity of
it.  It's harder to say something like "I'm in love with you and you know
that it's true" (sic) and make it work in a song because it's something
that's been said so often.  But to make something as simple as that and
sound real is more difficult than saying something really weird that might
seem clever.  Also, I love the video.  It looks just really natural.


I start going off on how beautiful I, too, thought it was when I heard
Norman break into "I'm in love with you..."
It's almost like he's completely unembarrassed about it.  It's like a real
celebration kind of thing.  It's funny cause most songs on our new album
were kind of down about relationships...not "down" about relationships, but
more of the negative side of love and things like that.  And Norman's
celebrating love and it makes me feel kinda happy.
One thing I think is really true.....well, I remember Norman being
interviewed for the Pastelism magazine and he said something in it - and I
like to think this is true.  This was in the really early days of Teenage
Fanclub.   I think the first LP was just about to be released and I think
maybe the "Everything Flows" single had been out over here, and he was
saying that he felt that if we hadn't been friends there's a good chance he
probably wouldn't still be making music, and I think that's also true for
me.  Both of us benefit a lot from our friendship because we both feed off
each other's enthusiasm.  It's like maybe I've written a new song.  I'll go
up to him and ask him, "What's this really like?  Is it okay?"  and he'd be
like, "Oh it's great!"  He's been the same with me.
You know we've always had that kind of support.
Also he would discover new records that he'd be so enthusiastic over that
he would build me up with enthusiasm and vice versa.  I definitely think
that's another thing..........that both of us wouldn't probably be doing
what we're doing if it wasn't for the other one.  Even though Norman
doesn't play that much in the BMX Bandits now, I still think he's a really
big part of what the BMX Bandits are about.  He still says things like,
"Yeah, I'm in the BMX Bandits."  That makes me feel quite nice.